RAPID CITY, SD — This morning, US House Representative Dusty Johnson stopped by studios at the post to have a chat with the Post’s Own Murdoc. The recording of the interview will be available via Dakota Town Hall, however in the meantime, take a look at the transcript below for a preview of things to come.
Murdoc: Big week, It’s announcement season and we have with us in the studio here Representative Dusty Johnson hot on the campaign trail. Congratulations on a successful announcement.
Rep. Dusty Johnson: Yesterday was pretty awesome, I mean when I walked into the room in Sioux Falls and it was wall-to-wall filled with people who frankly are pumped I mean Murdoch people love this excitement in the room. It was excitement and then to come out in Rapid City and have the same thing I think people are just they are looking forward to having a campaign that’s focused on the issues and focused on a positive message Man politics can be such a drag. I think people like it when it’s positive.
Murdoc: So let’s start here I Mean there what I will agree with that. I guess I was at the Rapid City announcement yesterday. That was a huge room full of Movers and shakers.
Johnson: Well, I mean we threw it together in about 40 hours.
Murdoc: it was pretty packed Okay, let’s start here. You’ve been on staff with you know rounds you’ve been on staff with do guard You’ve have you are you are undefeated in your races in the in the US house So it’s a little surreal to have your name. I think the joke I made this morning on the political junkies Was that right next to your baby print on the birth certificate? It says “dusty for governor”.
Johnson: Oh, stop Murdoc!
Murdoc: [Laughs] Seems like this is a long time coming, and it must feel a little surreal is what I mean.
Johnson: Oh, I mean there have been different. I mean we all go through different chapters in my life I mean there have been times where I have decided that I’m done with politics because it’s so polarized and it’s so ugly and I Want to go make a contribution somewhere else Sometimes that mood has lasted for years When I’ve been in the private sector or when I’ve been in a non political job, But I always get pulled back because ultimately I feel like a damn coward if I’m not in the arena. I think there are a lot of jerks who get excited about being powerful in politics and I’ll I’m just not gonna let the bastards win. I think we’ve got an incredible state, I think we got some work to do But I think we’ve got an incredible state and I want to be a guy who pulls together a great team who builds a great plan
Murdoc: Well, let’s start with the work. What does Governor Johnson bring to peer that’s missing now?
Johnson: Well, at first off, I would say I’m not I’m not running against anybody I mean, I think we’ve had a series of Clearly diverse governors right: Rounds is different than Janklow is different than Daugaard is different than Noem. They’ve all brought a little something special to the table, so I do think South Dakota starts from an incredibly good foundation, But we got to reduce property taxes and we need to do that in a responsible way without gutting, as some have proposed, Roads, bridges, cops, and kids. We need to make college and tech school more affordable– our technical colleges are not Affordable compared to the states around us. We need to make our community safer by focusing in a much smarter way on drugs and addiction– we cannot arrest our way out of this problem, but we do need good law enforcement. We need new drug interdiction teams to help us. and then finally I would know we got to grow this economy We have a strong anti-growth Vibe growing and I don’t want growth-
Murdoc: That’s a that’s the one that’s the most interesting way I’ve heard it described so far I’m sorry to interrupt.
Johnson: I was gonna call it something more negative and then I caught myself, And I don’t want growth for growth’s sake there can be growth that is not good for a state– but When we are doing growth right, growth with a purpose, then we have an opportunity to build Opportunity for the next generation those are gonna be four things I’m gonna focus on.
Murdoc: Let’s You mentioned let’s start here. I guess you mentioned work and growth data centers You must have some a perspective on it from the federal seat at all and then you see every state Clamoring and then fighting at the same time of should we have them should we not have them? But it’s a seemingly important discussion more and more
Johnson: Let’s pull back just a just a little bit. Donald Trump says that if we don’t win the AI race That it will be the equivalent of losing the Cold War, the next Cold War, and In fact last week in Congress, I was on a panel We were at. I was asking some pretty tough questions of these of these witnesses– Every single one of them from right to left said that if we lost the AI race it would create a global crisis. And then I asked well, okay Do these data centers need to be located in America for it to be truly safe? Like do we want to have the data centers here every single one of them said yes, So then we get to a question of all right if we can’t let the Chinese have the data centers because we can’t let the Chinese win The AI then where do we want them? They’re absolutely places in South Dakota where those data centers make a ton of sense and We can have an environment where they add to the tax base and they create a few really good jobs. I mean this is the people are just anti all data centers.
They’re kind of silly Because yes, we don’t want to data center every single place and we don’t want to give away the farm to get them, but if we want to win We need to have these facilities located on American- on American territory
Murdoc: In the same sense where that all makes a lot of Practicality on paper. We’re also in a legislature right now and since you’re announcing for governor I think it is more applicable to ask you than it has in the past There’s Facebook groups. I work there was Senate leadership signing it about chemtrails… and so, Respectfully, You mentioned starting from the beginning, and we’ve got a long way to go maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are… Politics is Angrier and maybe less logical than it has been in my lifetime And I can’t, listen- I’m not in charge everybody. I mean almost nobody in this world works for Dusty Johnson, right? And so What I’ve done in Washington and frankly what no other candidate for governor brings to the race is the ability to pull together these Disparate parts of the Republican Party and actually have us focused on getting things done rather than doing petty squabbles. Not everybody likes what the Republican House has done Murdoc, but I think they have to acknowledge We have worked together to a far greater extent than anybody realized. And there are a lot of children in politics But at some point we’re gonna get more done working together Then we are fighting.
Murdoc: well, so South Dakota has a history of the big party leaders, you know Being on the same page of strategy and how to control message and what the goals are Have you got a chance to talk to Marty or Larry or? You know a lot of names running for house senator Hulse senator Crabtree, you must have you know Your phone must be ringing off the hook the last 72 hours if you had to have any interesting conversations?
Johnson: I mean I talked to so many of those guys all the time, right and the people you mentioned, I like them, right? I mean, if Larry Rodin and Dusty Johnson are in a room together, we will cross the crowded room to go talk to one another because we actually enjoy the company of the other guy. And we get along well. I think there are a lot of parts of our worldview that we share. And fundamentally, we’re guys who just want to build things rather than want to knock things down. Not everybody in politics is wired that way. But yes, I’m talking to all those guys you mentioned all the time.
Murdoc: So let’s, you know, everyone’s tired of hearing and talking and then nothing happening about the prison: Let’s say that issue isn’t resolved as we round the bend in primary season. It’s hard to think it won’t be the major campaign issue of the of the of the year or not. Maybe not. It’s property taxes. Maybe they’re all a little tied together. But if there’s not a prison plan, do you have a prison plan loaded in the back pocket?
Johnson: I don’t want to second guess what the committee’s done so far. Listen, I think the Gov deserves some credit for pulling together that committee. Clearly, the committee progress has not been quite as fruitful as some would like. But they’re working through the data. I think these are good people. They want to get to the right area. I haven’t read all the consultants reports.
I haven’t toured all the sites. I would say this Murdoc: South Dakota is best served when we make 100 year decisions. And that’s the only thing that I would ask of the committee is make a good long term decision like actually do your job, actually serve the state. If they throw some band-aid on this thing to be able to avoid the political fight, to just sort of get through today, that’s a kicking the can action that I don’t I don’t think they’d be doing their job.
Murdoc: You know, PUC worked in the rounds of administration working to do our administration. How would have how would rounds or do guard handle this?
Johnson: Well, I worked the longest with Daugaard. I was his chief of staff for four years. This is a guy who only thought in terms of the long term. He’s really a remarkable leader in that way. He was kind of disinterested in the day-to-day drama of politics. Like he knew that Tuesday’s dumpster fire would go out by Thursday. And he knew that making a decision on the basis of that dumpster fire on Tuesday would look a little silly on Thursday to say nothing of 10 years from now. It’s one of the things I respect most about him. He just he he did not crave the, you know, the adoration.
What he craved was being a good steward. And it’s pretty remarkable. There aren’t many people like that in politics. I don’t do in a stew garden. I are very different people, but I would try to emulate that long term approach.
Murdoc: So how does it what is the biggest difference in being a house rep where it’s a big group and at times loud, you know, a lot of moving parts to not that there isn’t a lot of moving parts and being governor. But what’s the biggest difference in an executive role like governor and more of a house setting, like what’s the biggest change?
Johnson: Yeah, clearly, a legislator versus executive is different, although it’s not as different as some people make it out to be. I mean, at some point, governors aren’t dictators. I mean, so much of their power is soft power. It’s the power of persuasion. It’s the power of vision. Those are also the powers of good legislators. The real difference is not executive to legislative. It’s federal to state.
And that is that in the federal government, you have these massive powers together. But the progress is measured in inches. And so, yeah, I mean, you’re talking about the whole world. I mean, when we vote in Congress, we are impacting the whole globe. Seven or eight billion people. It is surreal. South Dakota, you’re only adjusting. You’re only making laws for a million people. And yet you’re making progress, not in inches, but you’re making them in miles. I’m a guy who likes to build things. And so I’m really excited to figure out how in our little corner of the world that really, really matters to me, how do we move miles rather than the frustrating inches of DC?
Murdoc: Well, there’s not un-frustrating topics here, right? Let’s go back to property taxes. And so, you know, if there’s a piece of pie of campaign material, if you add it up, all the races of everybody, 75 percent of it will be about property taxes.
Johnson: Ah, no, no, no. No, listen, property tax are a big deal and they really matter. And we add is absolutely a top priority to me. But I got to tell you, people who own businesses are more concerned about workforce and housing than they are about property taxes. And people with kids are more concerned about schools than they are property taxes. And people are concerned about health care. I mean, it is there are a thousand issues that South couldn’t care about. Probably tax is a big one. Maybe it’s number one, but there are a lot of issues.
Murdoc: Well, let’s stay. I don’t mean to stay on it, but I would want to stay on it. A lot of platitudes about property taxes. What’s an actual go forward? What can actually, you know, there’s been realistic proposals out there, increase of the sales tax to five and offset it with the grocery tax. So you can. This sounds silly to put it this way. Make everybody happy, which is impossible to do.
Johnson: [Laughs] Did that, did that make everybody happy? You were watching a different session.
Murdoc: It’s like when someone’s for the prison and then 20 hours later, after they talk to their people, they’re against the prison.
Johnson: Well, but they got 50 emails, Murdoc! Right? 50 emails. The people who have spoken.
Murdoc: It just, but we’re stuck there again, right? Like, what gets us through some of that? I don’t mean to harp on it, but you’re running for governor and-
Johnson: Step number one– What the most freeing moment of my professional career was about 20 years ago when I fully internalized the fact that not everybody is going to like Dusty Johnson. Like, universal popularity is actually not attainable. And there is going to be a segment of the population that despises, that hates every single leader. And there are leaders.
I’ve got colleagues in Congress that man alive. They can barely sleep at night because they know someone is going to bed right then at that moment, hating them. Doesn’t bother me. I got over it 20 years ago. And that is freeing because then you get to decide, all right, if I can’t be popular, then let’s at least be effective. Like, let’s do the damn job. And I’m just so excited to figure out what is the right way to design these solutions in a way that does bring people together. Not 100% popular, but that South Dakotans generally feel like we found common ground.
Murdoc: So let’s go back to your current role this week. It’s, you know, it’s big, beautiful bill week. You might have, you’re going to, you’re going to go back to DC and put on the tie and try to get this thing home.
Johnson: Yeah, I want to leave here in a little bit as you record this on Tuesday morning. I’m, I got a flight out of Rapid City Tuesday afternoon.
Murdoc: Who knows what’s going to happen by the time this airs on Friday.
Johnson: Oh yeah. This is, uh, yeah, just don’t include any of this. It’s going to seem like dispatch is from Manassas or something.
Murdoc: So in this, okay, where every day changes and every day is a new adventure and, and there’s a imposed deadline of the fourth, is this getting home?
Johnson: Yeah, there’s a good chance it gets home. I would put the chance at probably 85%. That’s not a sure thing, but it, most Republicans understand that all that failure would be terrible for this country. Raising taxes on 80% of American families, uh, an average of 22% would put us into recession, peeling back all of these pro-growth, uh, tax things like expensing and RND.
We know how important research and development is to this economy and to the world, like no longer giving preferential tax treatment to RND would grind American innovation damn near to a halt. And so are there some warts in this bill? I don’t like, you bet your butt. But failure, it should not be considered an option.
Murdoc: Well, am I missing anything on the hot button topics?
Johnson: I mean, you didn’t really ask enough questions about how great I am, but I understand that’s of limited interest to your listeners.
Murdoc: Not everyone, not everyone needs to like you!
Johnson: No, no, not everybody. I would like a few people to like me.
Murdoc: Okay, fair enough.
Johnson: If I could get to whatever 50% plus one of the Republican primary electorate. And then after that, everybody else.
Murdoc: Polling, polling says people liking you doesn’t seem to be your main issue.
Johnson: No, no, I…
Murdoc: Turns out all you got to do is go buy a bus now.
Johnson: I don’t have the bus, I have not wrapped an RV– I think it is probably a fatal flaw of the campaign. Uh, you know, but we are looking into a 1986 Pontiac and I feel good about where we’re headed.
Murdoc: Just orange, wrapped in orange.
Johnson: Yeah, right!
Murdoc: I like that pretty good.
